Isaac Hibbert - William Greaves

[Woody]

Depending on the era we’re looking at, J, the most promising is Isaac Hibbert (b 1836, Ashton under Lyne), his wife, Nancy and his several children who were living and farming at Hope Fold Farm (OL7 9JY), Littlemoss, Audenshaw.

They’re all on the 1881 census which you can access free through www.Findmypast.com, including the next generation Isaac Hibbert (b 1875). The farm is still there although it looks as though Isaac the elder had vacated it by 1901 to live at 65 Newmarket Road, Ashton..
There are any number of people called William Greaves and over a dozen from Ashton under Lyne, so an approximate date of birth/ marriage/ death would be helpful.

Just looking at the same era as Isaac above, the William Hibbert you’re possibly chasing was born 1830, lived at 92 Church street, Dukinfield and was married to Ann. Again, you’ll get the whole family on the 1881 census and they’re still alive in 1901.

This might give you a start and if they’re the right families I can give you a lot more. Just ask.

[arkay]

Hi Woody,

I just noticed your post about Isaac Hibbert and Hope Fold Farm.

Isaac was my gg-grandfather, via his daughter, Martha Ann, who married David E Wild. I know he died on 19 Sep 1906 and was buried in Christ Church on 26 Sep 1906, but I wondered if it would be possible to find out if he has a grave stone, and if so, what it says?

(I live in Canada, so it's not too easy to go myself!)

Thank you in advance for any help!

[Woody]

Hi arkay

Ordinarily your request wouldn't be a problem except the bad news is that Ashton under Lyne Christ Church cemetery was cleared in 1972. However, the good news is that the monumental inscriptions were recorded to microfilm. These are archived in the local heritage library so I’ll have a look there when I get some spare time. The whole Victorian Hibbert family seem to have used Christ Church for their BMD events. Are there any more people you would like me to look for while I’m there next week.

If you don’t already have the information, Isaac Hibbert married Nancy Leech at Ashton under Lyne St Michael, 1859 (Tameside certificate reference: CE4/13/410). Martha Ann Hibbert (b 1860) married David Edward Wild at Ashton under Lyne Christ Church in the Dec Qtr 1880 (Tameside certificate reference: CE1/5/107)

I also turned up a probate record which might interest you. “Isaac Hibbert of Newmarket, Taunton, Ashton under Lyne, Lancashire, cotton warper died on 19th September 1906. Probate granted at Manchester to William Hibbert, brewery horsekeeper, and Henry Hibbert, mechanic. Effects £433- 6s-3d (about £25,000/ $40,000 Canadian at 2005 valuation)

Woody

[arkay]

Hi Woody,

Thank you for your kind offer. What a shame the graveyard has been cleared!

I would really appreciate your looking up Isaac's and possibly Nancy's MI's (she was buried 7 Jan 1890). And if you have the time, would you also be able to look up David Edward Wild, buried 7 Mar 1916, and Martha Ann (Hibbert) Wild, buried 30 Dec 1913. Does anybody else share their graves?

I just realized that the date Martha was buried was the day her grandson, my Dad, was born! His name was Kenneth Hibbert Travis. I think he may have been christened at Christ Church, too. Sorry, I don't know which month in 1914 that would have been.

Yes, I did find the probate record for Isaac Hibbert, but haven't yet sent for his will. I do have the BMD certificates for all of the above.

Thanks for your help!

[Woody]

Hi arkay

I’ve now searched the Ashton under Lyne Christ Church burial microfiche but I’m sorry to report that none of these particular Hibbert burials appear on the filmed records. Others called Hibbert do, and I both noted these and traced them through the 1871 & 1881 census returns. If you want the census details, let me know. The people are:

Grave 80 – Headstone with kerbs

John Hibbert – Betty Lees: Jane; Robert,

“Thy will be done”. Sacred to the memory of John Hibbert of Ashton under Lyne who died March 9th 1970 in his 33rd year. Also Jane Hibbert who died Nov 8th 1900 aged 41 years. Also Betty Lees, widow of the late Robert Lees, and relict of the above John Hibbert who died Nov 1st 1918, aged 80 years


Monument with kerbs

Hibbert, James: Louisa, Elizabeth, Richard Walsh

“In loving memory of James Hibbert of Oldham Road, Ashton under Lyne who died April 12th 1898 aged 56 years. Also Louisa beloved daughter of James and Elizabeth Hibbert who died May 22nd 1883 aged 5 years. Also Elizabeth wife of the above who died May 27th 1924 aged 84 years. Forever with the Lord. Also of Richard Walsh, son of James and Elizabeth Hibbert died 15th Jun 1937 age 56 years


Indexed but not recorded

Hibbert, Susannah – Brookes, William: James, Elizabeth, Harriet


Graves 40 and 44: Double grave with 4-sided monument

Hibbert, Mary – Dooley, Charles; Joab, Alice, Jane, Margaret, Samuel, William

“In affectionate remembrance of Mary, eldest daughter of Joab and Jane Hibbert, AUL, who died 9 Sep 1869 aged 26 years. “The Lord gave and the Lord hath taken away. Blessed be the name of the Lord”. Also of Charles Dooley who died may 28th 1908, aged 61 years. Also of Alice his wife who died 29th July 1925 aged 80 years. Also Margaret third daughter of the above who died May 24th 1875 in the 25th year of her age. “Though he slay me, yet will I put my trust in Him. He also shall be my salvation”. Also William their fourth son who died Jan 26th 1896 aged 40 years. His end was peace. Also Samuel, third son of Joab and Jane Hibbert who died Aug 13th 1900 in his 47th year. According to thy mercies remember thou me.


Grave 80: Headstone with kerbs

Hibbert, Samuel: Henry, Martha, Thomas, Jane

“In affectionate remembrance of Samuel the beloved son of Henry and Martha Hibbert of Taunton who departed this life Sep 24th 1876 in the 32nd year of his age. Also the above Henry Hibbert who departed this life May 21st 1886 in the 77th year of his age. Also Martha his wife who died Jan 28th 1892 in her 82nd year. Also Thomas Hibbert who died April 7th 1905 in his 55th year. Also Jane daughter of the above Henry & Martha Hibbert who died Dec 16th 1915 aged 72 years.

I looked up your father's birth registration and it was at Mossley, not Ashton under Lyne. That might account for none of the relevant Travis or Wild records appearing on Ashton Christ Church records. Or could it be Christ Church, Denton ? Or they might be found at St George's, Mossley, the cemetery of which has also been mostly cleared.

What do you want me to do next ?

[arkay]

Hi Woody,

Thank you so much for all the work you put into this for me! Sorry to be late in replying, but I thought I would get an email notification.

Most of the Hibberts in your message are related to me. The last grave includes Henry and Martha, who are my 3xg-grandparents, and Isaac's parents. I'm thrilled! I also appreciate your looking up my father's christening - I didn't know it was in Mossley.

I have two long newspaper obituaries for Isaac, who it seems was a much-loved character in Ashton. These do say he died on 19 Sep 1906 was buried at Christ Church on 29 Sep 1906. He lived at 63 Newmarket Road, and the mourners walked to the church from there. The ceremony was performed by Rev F H Burrows. Just my luck if they missed filming his MI!

Apparently, Isaac Hibbert was known for writing and reciting poetry in the local dialect under the pen name of "Pickin' Peg". Could I impose on you further to see if perhaps there might be something in the archives related to that?

Once again, many thanks for all your help.

[Woody]

Hi arkay

The research is no problem at all but I’m afraid we’re not having any luck at all with this enquiry.

I found the two obituaries you mentioned together with other short accounts that appeared in the Ashton Reporter. These all referred either to Isaac Hibbert’s role as Chairman of the Parish Council or, to his activities within the Waterloo and Taunton Liberal Club. The club was on the corner of Oldham Road and Clive Street (opposite Hardmans Confectioners) and the flag there was lowered to half-mast when Isaac died.

He was continuously elected Parish Council Chairman from 1894 until his death in 1906 so evidently a renowned man of the people ‘. Also, by all accounts, ‘a reformer of the old school radicalism represented by Cobden and Bright’ (Google: ‘Repeal of the Corn Laws’). Every account mentions Isaac’s enthusiastic (and sometimes fiery) approach to life and business. Apparently the recitation in greatest public demand was his parody of a political speech made by the Liberal politician Asquith which ‘always extracted thunderous applause from the audience’.

Extract: Ashton Reporter 1903: WATERLOO AND TAUNTON LIBERAL CLUB - The annual general meeting was held on Tuesday evening, chairman, Mr Isaac HIBBERT. The club is in a very satisfactory condition, a marked and substantial rate of progress having been maintained. The balance-sheet was adopted without comment. There was a very good muster of members, and as the chairman remarked in his usual racy style, “If we are to be judged by the present company, we are a nice lot.”

There are no indexed library references to ‘Pickin Peg’ and neither did I find anything in the various Lancashire dialect volumes. The source of his pen-name is less of a mystery. Isaac worked for 50 years at Delamere Street Cotton Mill. The mill was in decline by 1890, closed permanently around the time of WW1 and was completely demolished in 1920 to make way for the Majestic Picture House.

For centuries handloom weaving had been carried out on the basis of the shuttle bearing the yarn being passed slowly and awkwardly from one hand to the other. In 1733 John Kay patented his ‘flying shuttle’ which dramatically increased the speed that it travelled. This was the first true mechanization of the textile weaving process.

Kay's great innovation was to increase the speed at which the shuttle passed across the loom, and to increase the distance that it travelled. He installed two 'shuttle boxes' at either side of the loom, connected by a wooden track or 'shuttle race'. The shuttle was propelled backwards and forwards along the race by means of a 'picking peg' which the weaver jerked from side to side.

As to exploring the dialect references further, one of the most recent compendiums was published under the auspices of the Lancashire Authors Association and printed in Manchester. There was a printer's e-mail address ([e-mail]) and they might be aware of other lines to explore. The Lancashire Authors Association also has a website but I could make neither head nor tail of it's complexities. You might have more luck and it would be worth a shot because it's full of references to dialect authors.

I've sent you a personal message with more information.

Cheers

Woody

[arkay]

Dear Woody,

I really appreciate all the time and effort you have put into my request!

I'm very proud of old Isaac! When I first found him on the 1881 census, I felt rather sorry for him struggling to support his large family as a poor cotton warper and small farmer. But I now see he led a very productive and satisfying life. Family history is full of surprises!

Many thanks again!
Arkay

PS: I'm afraid I haven't received the personal message you say you sent me. Could you possibly try again?

[Woody]

Hi arkay

Doing the work's no problem and although it must be disappointing for that there's no satisfactory outcome, at least you won't be wasting time and energy searching for something that isn't there.

The personal message system is part of this notice Board, not your own e-mail system. When you next look at this Board, at the very top right-hand corner of the page you'll see the 'messages' tag next to the 'log-in' tag. It should be telling you that my message is waiting for you there but you can only access personal messages if you log-in to the Board.

Incidentally, the personal message system is the only method I've found that will automatically send you an e-mail when somebody has responded. At the bottom right-hand corner of the message page there's a tag marked 'preferences'. Click on that and then tick the appropriate box. Gay might know whether this is also a feature of the main Board but, if so, I've never found it.

Ask me again if this doesn't work for you.

Cheers

Woody

[patriciaberry38]

Hello Arkay
I sent you a Private Message regarding my GREAVES on February 26. Did you get it?
I notice from other posts that you do not seem to be receiving Private Messages.
Pat
_______________________________________________

Feb 23, 2012 18:47:03 GMT arkay said:

Dear Woody,

I really appreciate all the time and effort you have put into my request!

I'm very proud of old Isaac! When I first found him on the 1881 census, I felt rather sorry for him struggling to support his large family as a poor cotton warper and small farmer. But I now see he led a very productive and satisfying life. Family history is full of surprises!

Many thanks again!
Arkay

PS: I'm afraid I haven't received the personal message you say you sent me. Could you possibly try again?