Queen Street Lodge, Hurst

[hollyberry]

Hi
My great grandfather Joseph Preston is on the 1861 Census as a coachman living at Queen Street Lodge, Hurst. His brother in law Edward Burrows, lives at the same address and is a policeman.

On the 1848 map there seem to be two possible houses which this could be the lodge for- Springfield House or Prospect House. I think that both these houses have disappeared. However, the lodge is still there. It was once Hurst Library and is now a private house.

Does anyone know anything about these houses and the lodge?

I also wondered about the status of the policeman in this situation.
Would he have been a private policeman for an estate?

Hollyberry

[Woody]

Hi Hollyberry

There's a lengthy article about the Hurst Cross area on the 'Yesterdays' website at the following:

www.rhodesfamily.org.uk/yesterdays/specials/24oct03_hurst.htm

The content might not get you much further forward, but it's an interesting read for anybody wanting to know more about Hurst life and people in the 1830s.

Have you tried the searchable Trades Directories at www.historicaldirectories.org ?


Woody

[hollyberry]

Thanks Woody.
The article you recommended actually mentions
'High Carrs- a farmhouse just inside the lodge gates in Queen Street'. It also talks about Prospect House and Hurst Hall, but it doesn't mention Springfield House. It could be then that the lodge was attached to Prospect House because Hurst Hall was not on the 1848 map?
The Whittaker family lived in Prospect House and Hurst Hall. Are there any Whittakers out there who could help?

The article was also useful in locating Water Street where my Carters lived in from 1861 to 1891. Does this street still exist? Its near Canterbury Street and Oldham Street in the article.

Hollyberry

[Woody]

Hi Hollyberry

From census information and Trades Directories, it looks as though the 1903 ‘Yesterdays’ article you quote is right about the Hurst area and the occupants of ‘Springfield House’, etc.

Whittakers

In 1841 the two Whittaker brothers mentioned in the 1903 article are living in separate house at Higher Hurst. Unfortunately, the individual dwellings are not named.

In 1851, John Whittaker (b 1806, Oldham) and family lived at Springfield House. John describes himself as a ‘cotton manufacturer’ and he also declares himself to be a magistrate.

In 1851, John’s younger brother, Oldham Whittaker (b 1811, Hurst, Ashton under Lyne), is living with wife Ellen at the next address listed on the census, ‘Hurst House’. He also is described as ‘cotton manufacturer’.

In 1861, John Whittaker is still at Springfield House. His brother Oldham Whittaker is an ‘employer of 1000 workpeople’, still living in ‘Hurst House’ together with wife and several domestic servants (cook, ladies’ maid, two housemaids and a blankets maid).

By 1871, the year Oldham Whittaker died, aged 60, ‘Hurst House seems to have transformed into ‘Hurst Hall’ and Oldham Whittaker states that he now ‘employs 899 men, 378 women, 139 boys, 54 girls’. The 1903 article identifies him as employing almost all the weavers in the area so this is corroborative evidence.

In 1881, Oldham Whittaker’s widow, Ellen, is now living in next-door ‘Prospect House’. The next house listed is Hurst Hall, now occupied by George H Kenworthy (b 1835, Ashton under Lyne), his wife, Sarah Ann (b 1833, Hurst), son John W Kenworthy (b 1861, Hurst), together with five servants.

A little further investigation reveals that George Kenworthy’s wife was formerly Sarah Ann Whittaker and that she married him at Ashton in 1859. Indeed, this is the couple that in 1861 are living with John Whittaker at Springfield House. Their son John W’s middle name proves to be ‘Whittaker’ (registered Hartshead, 1861), which seems to be all the verification evidence you’d need. Springfield House seems to be absent from the census lists after the 1871 census.

Curiously, the 1881 census reveals a fresh address next door, ‘Hurst Grange’, where Walter and Eleanor Thornley (both born Manchester) and family are living. He is also stated to be a cotton manufacturer, although a link to the Whittaker tribe isn’t obvious.

Location of Springfield House, etc.

In 1841 the addresses are not identified although both John and Oldham Whittaker seem to be living in adjacent houses in Higher Hurst.

In 1848 (map) we have both Springfield House and Prospect House, but no Hurst House,

In 1851 (census) we have Springfield House and Hurst House, but no Prospect House

By 1861 (census) we again have Springfield House and Hurst House, but no Prospect House.

By 1871 (census) we have no Springfield House, Hurst House, or Prospect House, but there is one Hurst Hall.

In 1881 (census) we have no Springfield House, one Prospect House (again), one Hurst Hall and one Hurst Grange.

As to the exact location of these properties, all the various census documents refer to High Street as one of the adjacent addresses. The 1861 census also refers to Grey Street and Chapel Street, and Queen Street figures in the 1903 article.

Out of interest, I compared the information in the 1903 newspaper article to both the 1848 and modern maps of Hurst.

These streets have changed their names between 1848 & 2009 and the entire Hurst Cross area formerly accommodating Springfield House, Prospect House, and Hurst Mill has been demolished.

I think some of the streets have been renamed as follows:

Formerly High Street – now King’s Road
Formerly Queen Street – now Queen’s Road

Certainly the 1891 Cotton Trade Directory lists both George Henry Kenworthy and Oldham Whittaker & Sons as the predominant cotton mill-owners in Hurst. There are clues to former times in the modern, re-built Hurst Cross streetnames – Kenworthy Avenue which runs parallel to King’s Road, and adjoining Springfield Street.

One or two labels on the 1848 map provoke questions.

Both Springfield House and Prospect House are clearly marked adjacent to each other in 1848, just above Hurst Mill. The New Connexions Methodist Church is also clearly marked next to the Lodge. However, a mill would need a water supply and the specially constructed small reservoirs that provided such water storage were known as ‘lodges’.

It makes me wonder whether the lodge in which your ancestors lived wasn’t a traditional ‘gate lodge’ attached to either Springfield House or Prospect House at all. Could it just have been a house that happened to be next to the Hurst Mill lodge?

I’ll keep thinking.

[Woody]

Hi Hollyberry

I did carry on thinking, and persistence paid off. I came across one or two further bits of information that might be relevant to your search.

You originally asked about the police force. I found a quote in the Chartist documents (www.chartists.net/Ashton-under-Lyne-rising-1848.htm) indicating that Ashton under Lyne had a Chief Constable in 1848. When the Chartist ‘National Guard’ threatened, he was also able to call upon the services of ‘150 special constables’. It's therefore quite probable that your Edward Burrows was not a private policeman employed by the Whittaker estate.

On the topic of the Whittaker family, it transpires that they built virtually the entire Hurst community after John Whittaker (1776-1840) migrated there from Oldham in 1808 and set up the cotton manufacturing business at Hurst Mill. After his death, his two sons, John (1806 – 1864) and Oldham (1811-1871), continued to build not only the business, but the community – workers’ houses, schools, library, etc. Son-in-law George Henry Kenworthy then inherited and carried on the business.

Unlike most of their peers, the Whittakers also donated many thousand pounds from their own funds to help their workers during the Cotton Famine 1861-1865, perhaps another reason for thinking they wouldn't have needed private security.

The brothers’ financial support resulted in The New Connexions Church (opened 1846 and demolished 1968 due to dry rot), Hurst Elementary School, the British School (also known as the "Black School", opened 1858 but burnt down in 1974), New Hurst Mill (opened 1847, closed 1931 at a point where 35% of Ashton workers were unemployed due to the effects of the Great Depression), the Hurst Cross, St John the Evangelist Church Spire, and Ashton Infirmary. They also owned Hurst Knowle Colliery, and a country house (Glyn Garth, Llandegfan, Anglesey, which they sold prior to 1881).

I eventually found a website which has several photographs of Hurst, including Hurst House and Prospect Place www.certificates.fsnet.co.uk/hurstinoldphotos.htm

Better still, I found a beautifully clear free map of Hurst for 1898 that shows the site of Hurst House, Hurst Hall, Prospect House and the Lodge in which your ancestors lived. As we thought, ‘Springfield House’ is the only address that is absent the 1890s.

This reference should take you straight to the page. (To enlarge the map, you might need to hover your cursor over the bottom right hand corner of the picture and then click on the green button that should appear) www.c5d.co.uk/hurstcross1898.jpg

I usually work on the principle that if you can’t get something free or at a discount, you don’t need it. However, if all else fails and somebody's wondering what to get you for Christmas, there are 1905 & 1918 maps of Hurst available for explosion at £2.25 each:

www.alangodfreymaps.co.uk/acatalog/Manchester__East__incl_parts_of_Tameside.html

Lancashire Sheet 105.03 Hurst & North Ashton 1906 - published 1999; intro by E A Rose

Lancashire Sheet 105.07 Stalybridge & Ashton 1918

I've now stopped thinking !!

[hollyberry]

Many thanks for your work Woody.

The map shows the relationship of the lodge and the houses beautifully. I could have been the lodge for more than one of the houses.

Hurst House was situated just behind what is now Hurst Grove where my father lived until 2001. The council used to use the old site of the house for parking work vehicles. A private housing estate was built there in the late 1990's after the council became New Charter.

The photos of Old Hurst have also given me another link to my family.
I remember my mother telling me she had gone to The Undenominational School! And there it is! I had not realised it was so large. My mother left there in 1917 at the age of 12 with a certificate saying that she had sufficient education and that she could go to work in the Munition factory.

I also remember my mother talking about the Kenworthy estate although quite what I'm not sure. It may have been because they were philanthropic and in fact they may have given part of their estate to the town. Hence the council owning the area the council flats were built on. In fact I think that may be right. My father did mention that he thought the council were out of order selling the land the private estate is built on. However, it had mutated into New House Charter by then. Hum.

Thanks again for your work.

I was away and that is why I have been so long in replying.

Merry Christmas

Hollyberry