Hi I'm researching the Roylance family!

[annabananae]

Hi,
My name is Anna Edwards and I live in Brisbane, Queensland Australia. I am researching my family tree, and they hail from Ashton-Under-lyne and surrounding areas. My main family is the Roylance family, John Thomas Roylance is my direct relative, and he was born in 1838 in Ashton Under Lyne. His parents were William Roylance and Rachel Bordman. William is listed in the 1841census as a tin plate worker, where as John is not listed. I think he may havebeen called Thomas, because Thomas is registered. In 1851 Thomas (John) is living with his grandparents, John and Tabatha Roylance, and is 13 years old working as a tinplate worker. Rachel is seen in the 1861, 1871 census as living with her daughter margaret,and is a widow. I was hopeing if anyone has any information aboutthis family because I would be grateful for anything. It is hard being on the other side of the world! John Thomas Roylance came to Australia during the cotton famine, as no census records post 1851 show him. William (his father) dissapears after the 1841 census,so a mystery there. If anyone is able to help me, please do. I really need a hand! Thanks!

[Woody]

Hi Anna

If you have any dates of birth for William & Rachel, I don't mind doing some searching with you.

I had a look for some of the people you mention and found that John Roylance the elder was born 1878 in Manchester and his death was registered at Hartshead, Lancashire in 1855 (certificate ref HAR/21/42). His wife Tabitha was born 1783 in Holmfirth, West Yorkshire and her death in 1859 was also registered at Hartshead (certificate ref: HAR/21/42). They had at least three children - John (b 1816), Elizabeth (b 1821) and Thomas (b 1822)

As usual, I suspect one of your difficulties in locating the relevant census information has been caused by mis-spellings in the various census trancriptions. Most of your ancestors are indeed listed under the right name, Roylance, but both ‘Reylance’ and ‘Rylance’ also appear relevant to the census searches.

The 1861 census for John Roylance (the younger) is particularly treacherous because every single name is wrongly spelled in the transcription. I think the person who filled in the form must have had far too much of the amber nectar. However, the original copy proves that these are some of the people you’re seeking. You’ll find them all on the Ancestry website under ‘John Reylance; born 1815, Mossley, Lancashire’.

There are many ‘Roylance' births listed on the free cheshirebmd.org.uk website so that might be a good place to look for clues. I also kept copies of the various census documents I found so if you want me to forward them, just let me know.

Woody

[Woody]

Hi again Anna

I think I managed to work out some of the connections between a few of your early Roylance ancestors in Mossley which get you moving forward again.

On the obstacles to progress front, there are one or two second marriages and different spellings of ‘Roylance’ that obscure the path. I also suspect that some children were at times ‘accommodated’ between the different Roylance families, and that dates of birth and birth places are pretty inconsistent. All par for the course really.

Like you, I couldn't find anything after 1841 for William Roylance, or anything after 1851 for John/ Thomas Roylance, but I pursued some of the other people listed on the 1851 census, partly using the tin plate worker link because it seems to have been a general family occupation.

Between the 1841-1851 census returns, there are several potential BMD death registrations a William Roylance, and any (or none) of these could have been John/ Thomas’ father. His death would certainly account for his absence in subsequent census records, and if John/ Thomas emigrated to Australia, that would account for his absence too.

I think William Roylance’s wife, Rachel (Bordman), might have died at Dukinfield in 1878 although the registration in the Cheshire BMD index is ‘Roylank’ (DUK/60/52).

You mentioned that John/ Thomas’ grandparents were probably John Roylance (1778-1855) and his wife Tabatha. I suspect I’ve managed to identify most of their children and grandchildren, eventually arriving at a great-great-grandson, Samuel Roylance, who emigrated to the USA in 1892. Samuel finished up in Bristol, Massachusetts, at least until the 1930s. Some of his children were born in Mossley and others in the USA so that’s another avenue you might want to follow up.

The 1851 census also lists Thomas Brannan (age 12) and Margaret Hill (aged 14) as grandchildren. I got excited about a death record for Thomas Brannan in Staley, 1859 but he turned out to be 83 years old so I haven’t followed up either of these ancestors any further.

I'm pretty sure I've found about 100 connections for you to consider, but far too many to list here. I’ve kept track of what I’ve been doing so perhaps you’ll contact me if you want to compare notes. Given the volume, it might be worth considering either the personal message system or some other means - Ancestry, for example.

Woody

[Woody]

Hi Anna

Although it throws out the date of birth you have for John Thomas Roylance by a couple of years, here's some good news for you, courtesy of the Latterday Saints website. It means he was probably born in 1835, and also confirms that his parents are William and Rachel.

St Michael is a parish church in Ashton-u-Lyne and, with an exact date, they might be able to trace a birth certificate there.

You can see the following information for yourself at www.familysearch.org

JOHN THOMAS ROYLANCE Male

Event(s):

Birth:
Christening: 07 FEB 1836 Saint Michael, Ashton Under Lyne, Lancashire, England
Death:
Burial:
Parents:
Father: WILLIAM ROYLANCE
Mother: RACHEL
------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

C005587 1832 - 1838 0547824 Film 6904136 Film
Sheet: 00

Woody

[Woody]

Hi Anna

As promised, here are the IGI records for two more of William and Rachel Roylance's children. Helen is entered as 'Ellen' on the 1841 census, and since Margaret is also listed on that return aged 1 year, hers seems to have been a very late christening.

HELEN ROYLANCE Female
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 19 AUG 1838 Saint Michael, Ashton Under Lyne, Lancashire, England
Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: WILLIAM ROYLANCE
Mother: RACHEL

Margaret Roylance Female

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 23 NOV 1845 St Michael'S, Ashton Under Lyne, Lancashire, England
Death:
Burial:
Parents:
Father: William Roylance
Mother: Rachel

Woody

[Woody]

Hi Anna

Gay managed to narrow down the possibilities for places and dates of Roylance deaths, and I’ve also developed a theory about what might have happened to William Roylance and Rachel Bordman.

I must stress that there are a lot of deductions and assumptions in the following outcomes so please take them as suggestions to be checked out more thoroughly. It’s an intriguing set of possibilities though.

First, there are no relevant Roylance deaths recorded anywhere apart from Mossley (Hartshead) and Dukinfield. Neither is there any trace of William and Rachel Roylance in the 1851 census, although I now suspect that might simply be due to transcription errors that confound the various search engines.

Second, there are potential death records for John and Tabitha Roylance in Mossley (1855 HAR/16/92 and 1859 HAR/21/42 respectively), but the only option now left is to manually check the records at the Parish Church (St George). This process reputedly costs £22 per hour so, needless to say, I didn’t bother. As Gay said, it’s not a common name so it might be something you want to raid your piggy bank for and follow up yourself. The website is www.mossleyparishchurch.org.uk, but the GENUKI website is more informative about family history research www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Mossley/StGeorge.shtml

Third. In short, I suspect that William and Rachel Roylance went their separate ways at some point between 1845 and 1859. Whereas William shifted to the Luzley area of Mossley, Rachel stayed in Dukinfield and the couple’s children remained with her.

I eventually found Rachel Roylance in the 1861 census, living at Wharf Street, Dukinfield with her now married eldest daughter, Jane, and her youngest daughter, Margaret. Jane is married to Joseph Nield (Mottram-in-Longdendale, St. Michael: Tameside ref CE31/6/164) and they have a child, Henry. The transcribers have mistakenly listed her as ‘Rachel Roylane’ which is why she proved difficult to find.

More interestingly from your perspective, her next door neighbour is Thomas Roylance, a 24-year old tin plate worker who is married to Hannah (Walker). The 1859 marriage took place at Audenshaw, St Stephen Tameside ref: CE7/1/148) and there's no obvious death record for Hannah in the UK.

If your earlier assumption about John Thomas dropping the ‘John’ is correct, this potentially new information might help you explore his later history in Australia. Audenshaw is part of Tameside and it’s right next door to Dukinfield, but an evaluation of the above marriage certificate is the only way of being certain that this is your man.

The 1871 census has Rachel still living at 144 Wharf Street, Dukinfield with her youngest daughter Margaret, and it seems most likely that she died at Dukinfield, 1878 (Tameside ref: DUK/60/52). It also seems that Margaret remained unmarried and there’s a possible death in 1902 (AST/127/93).

One blind alley is that there’s another Margaret Roylance born 1844, Mossley, who’s actually the daughter of William’s younger bother, John Roylance.

On the other side of the coin, by 1861 my theory is that William Roylance has moved 3 miles away from Dukinfield to the Luzley area of Mossley where he was born and others of your ancestry had remained.

The 1861 census has a tin plate worker of that name and the right age living as head of the household next to the Hunters Tavern, Luzley. He is listed as ‘married’ but has an unmarried housekeeper named Esther Rigby’. Esther was born 1822 in Newton, Hyde, which directly adjoins Dukinfield and is now part of Tameside. There are several children in the household bearing the second name ‘Rigby, but none named ‘Roylance’.

William Roylance, head, b 1806 Mossley – tin plate worker
Esther Rigby, b 1822 Newton - housekeeper
John Thomas Rigby, b Stalybridge, 1848 – tin plate worker
Josiah Rigby, b 1855 Stalybridge (DUK/20/27)
Tabitha Rigby, b 1856 Stalybridge (Tabitha Ann DUK/35/59)
William Rigby, b 1859, Stalybridge
Nathanial Rigby, b 1861, Luzley

There are two features about these births that might indicate William’s relationship with Esther Rigby being something other than simply employer and housekeeper.

William Rigby’s (1859) full name when the birth was registered at Dukinfield is Roylance William Rigby (DUK/45/44). Nathaniel Rigby’s birth (1861) was registered at Hartshead, Mossley which would be right for the 1861 census address (HAR/29/26). Luzley is a very small hamlet between Mossley and Ashton under Lyne, now part of Tameside. There are photographs of the area at www.ashton-under-lyne.com/photos/gallery14.htm

More significantly, by 1871 the Rigby children have all transformed into Roylance, and Esther is now listed as William’s wife. That would be a fairly common occurence where people were filling in census details as co-habitees; similarly, there was often no formal adoption process where the new husband was not the children's birth father.

I can’t find a reference to any marriage at all for Esther Rigby, but if I’m right about the connection to William, marriage to him wouldn’t have been possible until Rachel Roylance had died in 1878. He is still with Esther in 1881 and there’s a death record for William Roylance in 1888 (Hartshead HAR/48/24).

If you want to check for possible burial locations, a good way to do this is by googling ‘Tameside Burials’, entering the site, clicking on the Family History section and following the instructions that will get you into the searchable database. It’s far from complete but you’ll find plenty of your ancestors listed. (Once you’ve found somebody, don’t forget to click on the right-hand column which will give additional information about people who are buried in the same grave/ plot).

You can check or order all the certificates I've listed by visiting www.cheshirebmd.org.uk

I hope this theory helps you to move your search forward a bit.

Woody

[annabananae]

Hi guys!

Thankyou Keith and Guy for all of your time and effort trying to help me piece together my not so straight forward roylance ancestors. I never knew that so much kindness still existed in the world!

I think your conclusions on William and Rachel Roylance and their 'less than easy' marriage are quite possible. I ordered the death certificates of both William and Rachel, and Rachel's claims she is still married to William Roylance, a tinplate worker. On the census she is listed as married, but also as head of the house, suggesting the two probably separated before 1861, with Rachel keeping her husband's name, maybe in a last effort to keep her hope of him returning? All of the facts you provided fit well and I am sure that this is the likely story.

Their son John Thomas (or Thomas) migrated to Australia ( I am still searching for his arrival dates, the databases are very sparse) and he married Annie Keogh on 10 November 1875, in Gympie, which is up the coast from Brisbane in Queensland. He lists himself as Bachelor (?) and his birth Dukinfield. Parents William and Rachel Roylance. In Australia it is quite common for people new to the colony (as it was called back then) to change/alter their ages,names and background, so to create a new persona and start afresh. If John was married in England and his wife died before migrating (if she came with him it would have been noted in the marriage record) he could have decided to turn a new chapter in his life? Just a guess but with these Roylances it seems we have to consider every possibility! I agree with your theories on the other children of Rachel and William, and had reached the same conclusion about 'Ellen/Hellen'. Was it common for Husbands to leave their family and set up home elsewhere but still stay legally married in that period? From my knowledge it would have been quite scandalous and shameful for poor Rachel.

Please don't put yourselves out with helping me, and certainly do not spend any amount of money on my part. Thankyou for trying to locate the graves, but please don't worry. If there are any members researching family in Australia I would please be so happy to help in any way I can (I am familiar with most Australian genealogy groups and databases) so please refer if there is any to me because I am so grateful for everything. Here is the information given on Rachel and William's death certificates:

Date : Fifth February 1878 108 Wharf Street
Name : Rachel Roylance
Age : 73 years
Sex : Female
Occupation: Wife of William Roylance a tin plateworker
Cause of Death: Bronchitis 3 months certified by William Folkes
Informant : Ann Perkins,niece. Present at the death 108 Wharf Street Dukinfield
When registered : fifth February 1878

Date : Nineteenth January 1888 Livzley (?) Mossley
Name : William Roylance
Sex : Male
Age : 81 years
Occupation : a tinplate worker
Cause of death : Paralysis 16 weeks
Informant : Betty Ginne (?) Daughter
Present at death 13 Vernon Street Mossley
Registered : Nineteenth January 1888

Hope this can help other members. Please any Australian research I can help, I feel terrible that I have no way to thank you guys for all of your help and time, so helping other members is the least I can do.

I managed to find a birth for a Rachel Boardman on 11 October 1812 in Bolton Le Moors, near Bury in Lancashire. I am certain that this is our Rachel. Her parents were William Boardman and Ann Ainsworth. I will still continue searching for Tabitha (William's mother) Cassel and her line, so if anything pops up please let me know. Thankyou so much for everything you have done!

Cheers, Anna Edwards, Brisbane, Australia

[Woody]

Hi Anna

Thanks for your feedback about my Roylance theory, the information taken from the respective death certificates and your kind offer to look up information in Brisbane. I’m sure someone over here will eventually take you up on that offer.

Without more information about the circumstances, I suppose we could conjecture forever about what befell William and Rachel’s marriage. It’s also difficult to know whether shame and scandal would really have been an issue for either of them in an era where people were mainly concerned with surviving the times.

Divorce just wasn’t a viable option for most people in the 1850s. The main reason that separated couples entered into ‘less than easy’ relationships was that until the Matrimonial Causes Act of 1858, the only way of obtaining a divorce was by means of an expensive private Act of Parliament. Although ecclesiastical courts could grant legal separations, these didn’t permit either partner to remarry.

Neither were the few rights afforded to women anything like equal in those days. For example, although after 1858 a husband could obtain a divorce because of his wife's adultery, until 1925 a wife had not only to prove adultery, but also that it had been aggravated by the husband's cruelty or other offences such as bigamy or desertion for 2 years. Even then, the cost of legal proceedings would have been prohibitive, perhaps evidenced by the fact that there were only around 150 UK divorces in 1860.

One of the 1851 census return possibilities I turned up for Esther Rigby gives her address as ‘258, cellar King Street’ where she is living alone with her 1 year old daughter, Betty. More evidence of hard times, but a cellar would certainly have been preferable to entry to the workhouse, a system of public ‘care’ deliberately designed to be so harsh and degrading that people would be discouraged from ever seeking help from the Poor Law Guardians. That's where the deepest sense of shame was centred, and the terms ‘Guardian’ and ‘inmate’ say everything about Victorian attitudes to those who, for whatever reason, couldn’t support themselves in that era and found their eventual solution in the workhouse. Neither did the Poor Law rules make a distinction between those who couldn’t find employment and those who wouldn’t work. My mother's 87 and still views her old age pension as 'charity' so the Victorian Poor Law Guardians certainly did an effective long-term job.

By 1862, the Lancashire Cotton Famine you mentioned in an earlier posting had put nearly 350,000 men and women out of work and in 1863, proposals to make the ‘relief’ system even harsher provoked major riots in the Tameside area.

This kind of civil disturbance is the stuff of major life decisions so little wonder, perhaps, that John Thomas decided to make a fresh start in Australia. Like you, I suspect that the early to mid-1860s would be the most likely time of emigration.

I’ll keep a casual eye out for John and Tabitha and let you know if I find anything.

Good luck with the rest of your hunt.

Woody

[caletaman]

Hi Anna,
I have made contact with Woody this afternoon and he mentioned your research. My family name is Brannan and I suspect there may be a couple of links. One of my problems (and I have many!) is that there were lots of Brannans (with spelling variations) in Mossley - at least 4, as yet, unconnected families. I am short of time for the next 5 or 6 weeks, but I am happy to exchange brief messages and send more information after my holiday.
One thing which might help - and this follows from a Woody comment, is:-- www.lawtonsofsaddleworth.com/SADDLAW.wbg/wga43.html#I6958
This certainly mentions both Brannans and Roylance - in fact one of the Lawtons made have married twice, once to a Brannan and then to a Roylance. Look for Stanley Lawton in the alphabetical index.
There may also be a connection via the Beesley family - my great Grt Garndmother was a Beesley and a sister to a Beesley that may link to your family.
There is also a vague suggestion, not yet followed up, that a William Brannan (1807) married a Nancy Rylance. This William is not yet connected to my family, but.........

Good luck.

[chriswiseman]

Apr 24, 2009 9:48:28 GMT annabananae said:

Hi,
My name is Anna Edwards and I live in Brisbane, Queensland Australia. I am researching my family tree, and they hail from Ashton-Under-lyne and surrounding areas. My main family is the Roylance family, John Thomas Roylance is my direct relative, and he was born in 1838 in Ashton Under Lyne. His parents were William Roylance and Rachel Bordman. William is listed in the 1841census as a tin plate worker, where as John is not listed. I think he may havebeen called Thomas, because Thomas is registered. In 1851 Thomas (John) is living with his grandparents, John and Tabatha Roylance, and is 13 years old working as a tinplate worker. Rachel is seen in the 1861, 1871 census as living with her daughter margaret,and is a widow. I was hopeing if anyone has any information aboutthis family because I would be grateful for anything. It is hard being on the other side of the world! John Thomas Roylance came to Australia during the cotton famine, as no census records post 1851 show him. William (his father) dissapears after the 1841 census,so a mystery there. If anyone is able to help me, please do. I really need a hand! Thanks!

Hi Anna
I am also researching the Roylance family, my GGM was Mary roylance b 22.8.1845 in mossley died 1929 in Poole, she married James Nield in 1868. I will study all the info Woody and Guy have supplied for you and get back to you. I am in Cornwall, UK.
This is a great breakthrough for me as I had got stuck on this line.
Best wishes
chris wiseman