Livingstone, Taylor, Daniel

[toolelips]

Hello. I am new to the board. I have been searching the internet for the Cheshire area trying to figure out where to look for information. It has been a daunting task because there are so many places that hold records. At first I was looking in Lancashire but realized that Cheshire was really the area that I should focus on.
My ancestor Elizabeth TAYLOR I have traced back to the 1841 census for Audenshaw & Droylsden, District 3, Ashton-Under-Lyne, Kenworthy's Buildings(would like to know more about what those were)
Joseph TAYLOR 30 Cotton Dresser
Mary " 30
Samuel " 11
John " 8
Elizabeth " 3
David " 6 months
Ann LIVINGSTONE 60(Mary's mother)

Joseph has died by 1843 as Mary and the children sail to the United States. I have found them on a ships list. Mary remarries in 1847 to John LILLEY who is also from this area. I believe that I have found Mary in the IGI:
Mary Anne LIVINGSTONE
Birth: 24 April, 1809
Christening: 4 June, 1809 Gee Cross Unitarian, Hyde, Cheshire
Father: Alexander LIVINGSTONE
Mother: Anne
Someone at the Local Heritage Library tried to find this record on microfilm of the register but could not locate it.

They also located two marriages on the register for St. Mary's:
Mary LIVINGSTONE to Joseph TAYLOR 31 January, 1830 lived Dukenfield.
Alexander LIVINGSTONE to Ann DANIEL 12 September, 1803.
I would like to know where I could find these records? I cannot get past Alexander and his wife Ann.

I think I may have found Ann LIVINGSTONE Death Cert. and have ordered it from the GRO. I believe she died in 1857 and is buried at St. Thomas Norbury. She is listed there but there is no grave number. She was living with a Harriet FLETCHER in 1851 who may be her daughter.

I found an Alexander LIVINGSTONE death on a website and paid to view the information. It was as follows:
Register of Burials at Caroline St. Wesleyan Chapel in Stalybridge, Dukinfield, Cheshire:
Buried: 22 June, 1834 Age: 70
That was all the information that was supplied. Is there someplace I can find more with what I have?

Joseph TAYLOR is a complete mystery. Can't find any death information for him.

I have more ancestors from the Northumberland area and some from Aberdeen, Scotland. I have yet to find any connections... that is, anyone else searching ANY of my families.

[Gay J Oliver]

I have found it hard to add any more tiny snippets of information to what you have already gathered.

The two marriages you mentioned took place at Stockport St Mary's Parish Church. I have a copy of a CD available from the Family History Society of Cheshire. North East Cheshire Marriage Index and the only tiny extra bit of information contained on the CD was that Alexander Livingstone was a weaver.

The actual parish registers would give the names of the two witnesses, in case this gives you any extra clues, but marriages at this date do not give parental details.

Incidentally, I did find another marriage on this CD of a Donald Livingstone marrying a Betty Hale from Bredbury 18 September 1792 again at Stockport St Mary's.

It would need someone with access to the original parish register films at Stockport Heritage Library to check these.

I might be making a huge assumption here, but LIVINGSTONE is rare in these parts and Alexander and Donald are both Scottish forenames. There may be a family relationship?

I have also found a couple of siblings for Mary Anne Livingstone:

Jennet (another Scottish name)born 13 May 1805 and baptised 23 June 1809 at Gee Cross Unitarian Chapel parents Alexander and Anne

Thomas baptised 6 May 1807 at Wesleyan Methodist Chapel at Bullock Smithy.

This is from the IGI and I know that the Gee Cross Unitarian Chapel Registers often contain quite a bit of extra information, so these registers are worth another check. I may be able to check these for you in a couple of weeks

Sadly I can't check any deaths for you at the moment. I do have a collection of microfiche, but these are currently out on loan and I won't get them back for about six weeks.

best wishes,
GayJ

[Woody]

Like Gay, I’m afraid I can add little to the information you already have, although I did only check Ann Livingstone’s whereabouts against the 1841 and 1851 census returns.

However, I then went on to check all the other people listed at the address on Manchester & Buxton Road, Hazel Grove in the 1851 – 1871 census returns, and most seem to have been buried in the same churchyard as Ann Livingstone. I suspect you’ve already found that reference source at the Norbury Parish Church website www.norburypc.org

Livingstone, Ann aged 79: buried 15th Feb 1857: no grave reference.

Fletcher, Harriet aged 83: buried 5th Jan 1882: no grave reference

Fletcher, Thomas aged 82: died 1st Sep 1871, buried 24th Sep 1882: grave reference C15Q

Fletcher, Harriet aged 19: died 2nd Jan 1859, buried 5th Jan 1859: grave reference C15Q

Fletcher, Rueben aged 62: died 21st Nov 1904, buried 25th Nov 1904: grave reference C15Q

Fletcher, William aged 72: died 2nd Dec 1905, buried 6th Dec 1905: grave reference C15Q

Ford, Fanny aged 79: died 21st Mar 1820: buried 18th Mar 1920 (I presume a typing error here and that these dates should be reversed): grave reference A22C

Ford, Thomas aged 54: died 26th Jan 1885: buried 31s Jan 1885: grave reference C9B

The 1841 census only says that Ann Livingstone was born ‘out of Lancashire’, but the 1851 census gives her place of birth as Prestbury. That might suggest your pre-1800 research should be pushed more towards the Macclesfield area of Cheshire.

Your own information, together with that just provided by Gay, prompted me to try to think ‘outside the box’.

It’s not something that’s taught in schools, but after leaving Stockport on his march south in November 1745, the only reason that Bonnie Prince Charlie passed through Prestbury rather than use the main road, was that there was no main road prior to 1810. To get from almost anywhere to anywhere in North East Cheshire before 1810, it was necessary to pass through Prestbury.

As the focal point of the parish, Prestbury also had a more unusual kind of nucleus than most English villages of the era. Not only was the parish huge - some 10 miles across and 40 miles in circumference – but pre-1800s maps show that roads radiate from Prestbury to all the other 34 townships of the parish.

The relevance to your ancestry of this bit of historical fact is that until well into the nineteenth century, everyone from almost the entire parish had to go to Prestbury to get wed or buried.

Further, Bonnie Prince Charlie only got as far as Derby before he was forced to retreat and hightail it back north to his eventual defeat at Culloden in April 1746.

The point is that those soldiers defeated in the various skirmishes along the way were usually abandoned by the army and unaided, either had to make their own way back to their place of origin or, more often, simply took up residence wherever they found themselves abandoned. That’s exactly how one of my Scottish ancestors found himself in London prior to his emigration to Virginia, USA in the late 1740s.

Much of Bonnie Prince Charlie’s rebel army was recruited en route from Scotland to England many dropped out along the way, and some would do that before even reaching Derby. Neither was it anything like the cohesive, well trained force of regular soldiers we know today. In December 1745, one Macclesfield source reports “…The officers for the most part behaved pretty well, but the common men like devils, especially in their retreat, for they not only lived upon free quarters in every house but pilfered and plundered people of their money, bedding, cloths and every thing they could carry off”, and later adds “ … greatly dispirited and quarrelling amongst themselves”. A similar chain of events could account for the possible Scottish origins that Gay turned up.

Anyway, it might be worth a quick trawl in the Prestbury area for your pre-1800 ancestors.

Woody

[Gay J Oliver]

Following on from what Woody mentions about Prestbury, I do know that their records are pretty poorly represented on the IGI and baptisms for the period you are researching are totally absent.

I have checked what resources are held at our Family History Society's Research Centre at Alderley Edge and these are the microfilms they hold, These will also be at Chester Record Office. I presume these are also available via LDS Family History Centres, but will check. As Woody states, you can see by the sheer number of records on microfilm what an important parish it was:
Prestbury St. Peter Bapt, Marr, Burials 1560-1747 G27 & A14
BTs - Bapt, Marr, Burials 1634-1701 B1
Baptisms, Burials 1748-1812 G28
Baptisms, Burials 1748-1812 A15
Baptisms 1812-1858 G29
Baptisms 1813-1893 A15
Baptisms 1892-1990 A16
Marriages 1748-1755 A15
Marriages 1754-1773 G31
Marriages 1754-1786 A16
Marriages 1774-1789 G32
Marriages 1786-1812 A17
Marriages 1789-1803 G33
Marriages 1803-1810 G34
Marriages 1811-1816 G35
Marriages 1812-1828 A18
Marriages 1816-1825 G36
Marriages 1826-1837 G37
Marriages 1837-1844 G38
Marriages 1844-1851 G39
Marriages 1826-1840 A19
Marriages 1840-1847 A20
Banns 1844-1859 A28
Marriages 1847-1853 A21
Marriages 1853-1859 A22
Marriages 1859-1865 A23
Marriages 1865-1871 A24
Marriages 1871-1879 A25
Marriages 1879-1886 A26
Marriages 1887-1958 A27
Marriages 1958-1969 A28
Burials 1813-1858 G30
Burials 1813-1955 A29
Burials 1955-1978 A30
Church Warden's Accounts 1728-1844 A30
Overseers Accounts 1828-1848 A30
Memorial Inscriptions 1600-1950 A30

[Gay J Oliver]

I went back to my CD to make a list of all the other LIVINGSTONE marriages which took place in North East Cheshire between 1754 and 1837:

James Livingston to Cath Axon 25 December 1820 at Cheadle
James Livingston to Mary Burch at Mottram in Longdendale 20 April 1835
Joseph Livngston to Mary Brown at Cheadle 8 September 1821
Sam Livingston to Ann Kaine 7 October 1827 at Cheadle

Archibald Livingstone to Alice Barns 18 April 1830 at Cheadle
Daniel Livingstone of Bredbury to Lucy Booth of Hyde 20 December 1830 at Stockport St Mary's
Margaret Livingstone to Thomas Naylor 7 June 1824 at Cheadle
Robert Livingstone to Catherine Beeley 21 August 1828 at Stockport St Mary's.

So there seems to be a little pocket of LIVINGSTONES at Cheadle. These records are also almost non-existant on the IGI which only covers the baptisms between 1677-1713. Here is the list of microfilms held at our Alderley Edge Research Centre For Cheadle St Mary's, once again a massive old parish:

Bapt, Marr, Burials 1558-1723 L16 Baptisms 1723-1792 L16
Baptisms, Burials 1792-1812 L16
Baptisms 1813-1835 L16
Baptisms 1836-1880 L17
BTs - Bapt, Marr, Burials 1610-1825 B11
BTs - Bapt, Marr, Burials 1825-1834 B12
BTs - Bapt, Marr, Burials 1834-1837 B13
BTs - Bapt, Burials 1834-1852 C3
BTs - Bapt, Burials 1872-1884 C3
BTs - Bapt, Burials 1838-1885 B13
BTs - Bapt, Burials 1885-1888 B33
Marriages 1723-1796 L17
Marriages 1796-1817 L18
Marriages 1817-1837 L19
Marriages 1837-1845 L20
Marriages 1845-1852 L21
Marriages 1852-1869 L22
Marriages 1869-1896 L23
Marriages 1896-1913 L24
Burials 1723-1850 L24
Burials 1850-1911 L25

[toolelips]

;DThank you to Gay and Woody!! I am glad I decided to come back and give a check on my query. I thought that I might get an alert when I recieved a reply but I didn't. Hope I didn't forget to check something. I loved all the history information supplied by Woody. And referring to the possible Scottish origins of Alexander LIVINGSTONE that had been suggested to me by some learned LIVINGSTONE researchers on that surname list. Since I joined this board I have gotten some information and copies of records from the friendly people at Stockport Local Heritage Library. I was supplied the actual marriage record image of Alexander LIVINGSTONE to Ann DANIEL. AND it was signed by a "Henry DANIEL". So there's another clue. What I also found interesting..and correct me if I am wrong, Alexander LIVINGSTONE signed his name. Most records I get from 1803 period the people only sign their X. They also supplied me with marriage record of Joseph TAYLOR to Mary Anne LIVINGSTONE in 1830. They were both of "Dukenfield". The witnesses were William MACGUAY and John LOWRY so that isn't a help at this time. Back to possible siblings of Mary Anne LIVINGSTONE, I was in contact with a woman who actually originally supplied me with the name of Mary Anne's father, Alexander. Funny thing is that there is no birth record I can find for her ancestor, Lydia LIVINGSTONE. Lydia married a Thomas STEAD in Lancashire and they moved to America some time after 1870. I am going to contact her today and see if she ever found anything more . Thank you again for all your help. I will send another reply to Woody as I have another history question for him.

Sincerely,
Margaret