finding Lydia

[brian]

Can anyone kindly help with finding the death of Lydia HURST, nee BURKE, bn 15 July 1868 in Oldham, but married and lived in Stockport?

The only found probable death of her husband, James William HURST, is regd. Audenshaw in 1940, age 72, which is the correct age.
There's the death of a Lydia HURST in Stalybridge, 1941, age 89, which can't be right because she was the same age as her husband.

She had a sister Emily, 3 years her senior, born in 1865 and who MAY have married a Mathew THOMAS in 1884.

One of her 2 daughters, also Lydia, married James Henry COSTELLO in 1920 and later lived in Droylsden, so this may have been a connection. She died in 1964.

I'm checking my wife's female ancestors as part of a cancer gene research project by a small unit at Leeds Chapel Allerton hospital.

Thanks,
Brian

[Woody]

Hi Brian

I managed to trace James William Hurst and Lydia's respective families back to the 1850s, and in 1911 they were still living in Stockport. I could only come up with one alternative death record that's in the right age range - 'Lydia Hurst, age 53, died Prestwich, Lancashire 1922, GRO Index: volume , page 294'. Interestingly, there's a possible marriage for daughter Lydia to James Costello registered at Prestwich in the Sep qtr. of 1920 but it doesn't appear in Freebmd.

For what it's worth, the Lydia Hurst of the wrong age who died at Stalybridge in 1941 you mention left a will but although there's a Probate Listing for her, no age is provided. You'd have to assume that 'Tom Hurst' is a relative and the name might mean something to you ? If so, the 'wrong age' at death given in BMD records might just be a transcription error. This is what it says.

"Lydia Hurst of Bennett Street, Hollingworth, Cheshire, widow died 12 March 1941. Probate granted at Manchester to Tom Hurst, drapery manager. Effects £467 11s 4d (about £16,500 in today's money)".

If you don't already have the records of family marriages, second marriages, etc., I kept copies of the various documents I found and don't mind comparing notes. Significant other female family names are Boon (Hurst), and Dakin (Burke).

[brian]

Hi, Woody,
Many thanks, I had eventually managed to find the 1922 death and applied Bury, as is the norm for Prestwich; however they could not find it and suggested I ask Manchester, so am waiting for their reply.

I am back to Sarah DAKIN m. Benjamin BURKE in 1851, though the Dakin family gets complicated as it was possibly DEAKIN when she was born in Buxton and when the family were in Stockport in the 1851 and 61 censuses. I can't find a relevant DAKIN family in Stockport at that time.
Mind you Benjamin BURKE and his father John don't show anywhere either.

James William HURST was 2 in 1871 when living with his g.mother, aunts and older sister, who died age 6. Can't see his parents at any time (John Hurst and Mary (Boon))

Had to get the Costello/Hurst marriage to confirm her identity, then the death (cancer).

So far I have 2 known deaths out of 4 from cancer. There is a limit to checking various female relatives, and also it could be passed by a son to his daughters. If it existed in the family.
So many "buts".

Regards,
Brian

[Woody]

Hi Brian

Those are the same people I found too so, apart from the probabilty of pinning down Benjamin Burke’s whereabouts in 1851, I’m afraid I don’t have much to add. This is what I have.

In the 1851 census I think Benjamin was a lodger at 9 Brown Street, Heaton Norris, Stockport and the search problem’s due to a major transcription error. Would you believe that on Ancestry he’s listed as ‘Beryle Mans Burks ? In case you can't find it, these are the occupants of the house:-

Thomas Robinson (head) age 65, a calico printer born in Ireland
Elizabeth Robinson (wife) age 45, no occupation born Witton, Lancashire
Benjamin Burke (lodger) age 22, a cotton factory apprentice b Stockport
James Perkins (lodger) age 24, a cordwainer (shoemaker) born Stockport
Bridget Carney (lodger) age 20, a cotton cardroom worker born Stockport

I’m assuming you meant to say that Lydia’s older sister, Emily Burke, married Matthew Lomas in 1884, rather than Matthew Thomas ? There are 1891 and 1901 census returns for this Lomas couple although there are also discrepancies.

In 1891, Emily gives her place of birth as ‘Stockport’, but on the 1901 return has reverted to ‘Oldham’. The older children are exactly the same on each return so there's not much doubt that this is the same 1884 marriage, or that this is your Emily Burke.

There’s another Ancestry transcription error in 1901 but you’ll find the relevant document by searching for ‘Matthew Langs’ b 1865, Stockport. In 1901, the family is also recorded as living in Altrincham, but they're actually in Edgeley, Stockport.

There’s then a Stockport death record of the right age for Emily Lomas in 1909. She had two daughters (Florence b 1886 & Emily b 1893) among her five children, all of whose births were registered at Stockport. I don’t think her husband Matthew died until 1940.

As you say, there are so many Deakin/ Dakin people within the Stockport boundaries in 1851 that it’s difficult to define who’s relevant. There are even more in Derbyshire and I suspect that’s where Sarah Dakin’s (Burke) family origins might be found.

The strongest candidates I found were in the 1851 census where a Deakin family in the right age-band live at 1 Green’s Yard, Heaton Norris. This particular Sarah Deakin’s father is Thomas Dakin (b Bakewell, abt 1810) and her mother is Lydia (b Matlock abt 1810 and probably nee 'Bunting'). Later census returns indicate that Lydia's birthplace is more specifically 'Matlock Bath'.

Using the IGI, this couple can be traced much further back than their marriage at Buxton in November 1830. All the members of this family I checked out from 1851 onwards retained the name 'Deakin'.

On the mystery of lack of documentation for John William Hurst's parents, it might well be that one or both died before the 1871 census. There's a very likely 1869 Stockport death record for Mary Hurst (age 23) which would account for her absence from census records post-1871. The 1846 birth record for Mary Boon gives her mother as ‘Sprowson’ and again using the IGI, it’s possible to get right back to probable ancestral origins in the Wilmslow/ Goostrey area of Cheshire.

The other oddity about the 1871 census for JW Hurst is that there's another grand-daughter who’s listed as Ann Boon (age 4), but there’s no birth registration record for her. However, there is a Stockport birth registered in 1866 for 'Ann Hurst' where the mother's maiden name is 'Boon'. That doesn’t sound like coincidence so it’s almost certain that James William had an older sister who died at Stockport, age 6, in 1873.

Hope this stuff helps you move forward a little and good luck with Lydia's death certificate. If Manchester don't come up with the goods, you could try Salford. Prestwich became part of Salford when the Greater Manchester Council was created in 1974.

[brian]

Thanks again, Woody. I'll print out and study. One thing I didn't mention are that in the 1861 the Deakin's are next door-but-one to the Burke's, which may mean something.

Manchester can't find the Lydia death so I've sent to Southport.