thea
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Post by thea on Jun 30, 2010 13:32:44 GMT
Just thought i would try and post in the vain hope that someone could track down the green family.mums side .john green not a clue on birth married barton upon irwell registry office 1904 .lots of john greens in lancashire so tracking the right one difficult either backwards to1901 or forwards to 1911.He married ann elizabeth royle the I G I has her born at castlehall. Iwould like to trace her side as a brother albert is supposed to exist but also cannot trace him. Although marion royle born 1911 is his daughter & my mums cousin.
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Woody
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Post by Woody on Jul 3, 2010 11:03:19 GMT
Hi Thea I don’t envy you having to search for somebody called John Green but I might be able to help you out with the Royle side of your family. This information needs checking more thoroughly but it seems to fit the people and dates you gave. The 1901 census has a Royle family living in the Waterloo area of Ashton under Lyne. I can’t tell you which street because I can’t decipher the handwriting on the census return. This is the 1901 census list (with my own research added to the individuals for clarification and to save space). • George [Henry] Royle (Head) born 1850 and registered at Burnley, Lancashire – a self employed skip & basket-maker (birth certificate kept at Preston: certificate reference BU/25/87). He married his wife, Hannah Maria Chesworth at Stockport St Mary, Cheshire in 1870 (cert ref: ST16/19/319). • Hannah [Maria] Royle (Wife) born 1849 and registered at Stockport, Cheshire (birth certificate kept at Stockport: reference ST1/23/27). Luckily, her mother’s maiden name is given as ‘Hutton’. That probably means her parents were Eliza Hutton and James Chesworth who married at Heaton Norris, Stockport in 1850 (ST7/2/59). Interestingly, at a previous point in her marital history Hannah's mother was called Eliza 'Bennett', probably indicating that James Hutton was a second husband. • Ann E Royle (Daughter) born 1879 and registered at Ashton Town (AST/95/97). This birth is registered as ‘Ann Eliza’ Royle and it's not unknown for people to drop second names on official forms. The 1904 marriage record at Barton upon Irwell lists her as plain ‘Ann’ Royle. There's information from the 1881 census that might provide a reason for connecting 'Ann Elizabeth Royle' to John Green. • George W[illiam] Royle (Son) born 1885 and registered at Ashton Town (AST/110/92) • Albert Royle (Son) born and registered at Ashton Town (AST/116/57) • Henry E Pucher (is actually Henry Edward Pincher, nephew) born and registered at Ashton under Lyne, 1889. Using this information to get back into the 1881 census (you can access a transcription free of charge on http://www.findmypast.com), the family lived at 46 Botany Lane, Ashton under Lyne, and there were two more children. • Elizabeth Ann Royle (daughter) born 1873, Stalybridge, Cheshire • Edith Royle (daughter) born 1875 Ashton under Lyne, Lancashire Checks on www.cheshirebmd.org.uk might explain why these two people don’t appear on the 1901 census – they had both married by then. If I’m right:- • Elizabeth Ann Royle married Robert Harry Holland at Ashton under Lyne (St Michael) in 1894 (CE4/30/428). I mentioned earlier a reason for connecting John Green to 'Ann Elizabeth Royle'. With first names so similar, over time it would be easy enough for memories of these two daughters' respective marriage partners to become mixed up. • Edith Royle married Sidney James Mathew Perkins at Ashton under Lyne (Christ Church) in 1895 (CE1/6/286) Hope this stuff helps you along the road. I have a bit more if this sounds right. Woody
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Woody
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Post by Woody on Jul 3, 2010 14:33:45 GMT
Hi again Thea
Apologies for a mistake I made in my previous posting. Where I said Hannah Maria Chesworth's mother married her second husband James Hutton, of course that should have read James 'Chesworth'.
Whilst I'm here again, George Henry Royle died 1908 and wife Hannah Maria in 1916, both registered at Ashton.
Elizabeth Ann Royle [Holland] and her husband (a 29-year old plasterer born Ashton under Lyne) lived at 26 Taunton Road, A-u-L in 1901 and they had three children by then - Harold (5), May (4), Ivy (2/12).
Edith Royle (Perkins) I can't find anywhere in the world in 1901. Her husband, Sidney, is equally elusive. He was born in Cheltenham, Gloucestershire so it's possible they migrated to the Midlands. There are no death records for either Edith or Sidney Perkins prior to the 1901 census, but there's a possibilty of a return by Edith to the UK from New York in 1897. There's an infant death record for Sidney George Perkins, Mossley 1896 who could be their son.
I think Albert Royle married Mary Ann Porter at Ashton (Christ Church) in 1910 (CE1/8/334). They had one daughter, Marion Royle, born Mossley, Lancashire in 1911 (MOS/17/41) who is probably the person you mentioned ?
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thea
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Post by thea on Jul 10, 2010 15:18:23 GMT
Thanks woody thats brill i have saved it to the computer.i have not heard the name pincher before .we are supposed to have hawkins somwhere in the family but thats all guesswork to. I realy do need to get a family history programme sorted to get the info in some order .
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Woody
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Post by Woody on Jul 10, 2010 18:59:39 GMT
No problem Thea. The tree builder programme I sometimes use is the free one you can download from www.myheritage.com. It does everything it says on the tin and it really is free so long as you resist all their enticements to upgrade. You'll find one or two Royle-Hawkins marriages on www.freebmd.org.uk if you enter the two in the surname and spouse surname search boxes respectively. I might even have a closer look myself next week.
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thea
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Post by thea on Jul 13, 2010 12:59:03 GMT
Thanks again woody .now i have started on on the pincher thing i have traced everyone except the father francis who seems to have disappeared after 1891. if i am right he was a soldier at st botophs in colchester at the infantry camp .free bmd does not come up with any deaths for him anywhere.his wife was margaret catherine royle.married in 1879.will check up on the hawkins set up .its good to have another head and set of eyes on the problems .
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Woody
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Post by Woody on Jul 14, 2010 18:19:57 GMT
Hi Thea Francis Pincher’s a bit of a mystery but the answer might lie either in either a military death or, in migration to the USA. Neither of these events would have been recorded in FreeBMD which would explain why he can’t be found there. I don't know what you found, but I think Francis was born in the West Bromwich area of Staffordshire, 1859, and I think I have records going back to 1803 for his ancestry. I also think that he married Margaret Catherine Royle at Salford in 1879. If so there's a Salford birth record for Francis Arthur Pincher in Sep 1880 and, sadly, a death record for him the following quarter, Dec 1880. I’d put money on the death record for Margaret Catherine Pincher being at Ashton Town (AST/124/35 ) in 1900 which would also account for young Henry Edward living at Ashton with his aunt & uncle in the 1901 census. Interestingly, the 1871 census has Margaret Catherine Royle (b 1856) living at 7 Bullock Street, Stockport with her father (Henry), mother (Mary Ann [nee Grundy]) and younger brother (Arthur Albert) – which turns out to be right next door to Hannah Maria Royle (Chesworth) who in 1871 lived at 7 Bullock Street. By 1881 Margaret Catherine is living with her brother Arthur Albert Royle and her widowed mother at 4 Middle Hillgate, Stockport where Arthur is a beerhouse keeper. Margaret is listed as ‘married’ although there are no children present and, as we know, husband Francis is in the army at Colchester. Other probable Stockport births in this family are Florence Pincher (1884-1886] and Bertha Pincher [1887-1891]. Although I can find the rest of the family still in Stockport in the 1891 census (where she’s now calling herself Maggie), the record only appears in www.findmypast.com where I’m not a member. If you don't have access, somebody else might help you out because that would tell you whether Maggie declares herself to be still married or is now a widow. Henry Edward Pincher is the surviving child and he married Amy Catherine Cooke (age 27, b Henson) at Hendon Parish Church, Middlesex on 4 November 1916. Because it’s London, I found a copy of his marriage certificate which tells us that he was a soldier living at 183 Trafalgar Street, Ashton under Lyne at the time of marriage, and that his father, Francis, was also a soldier, ‘deceased’. If you want the certificate, just ask me. Finally, there’s only one Francis Pincher birth registered in the entire UK free BMD archive and there’s one possible migration record. The 'SS Kansas' sailed from Liverpool to Boston, Massachusetts arriving there 18 April 1889 with a Francis Pincher listed on the manifest as a single man, labourer, born England 1859 who intended to become a permanent settler. I'm reasonably sure the Army was reducing its size in the late 1890s, by which time Francis would have had at least 10 years service. If this is him, his arrival in the USA would probably have been just too late to profit from the Oklahoma Land Rush on 22 April 1899 when 2 million acres were given away to the 50,000 settlers who managed to get there in person. I'll try and have a dig into the Hawkins line shortly
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thea
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Post by thea on Jul 15, 2010 10:35:12 GMT
Hi woody I cannot belive you have done all that work for me . I did find out some of it and will try and get a subcription or pay as you go for one of the sites soon not sure which will be best though. But what i am seriously god smacked about is that my mum was born in 1924 at 183 trafalger st and i went to trafalger school and gran still lived there in the early 50's.though i dont know if the house was rented. My sister does not have any clue about our relis and it seems this will be a real eye opener . thanks once again thea
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Post by staffords on Aug 3, 2010 18:11:14 GMT
Hi List This is my first visit and what brings me here is my research of my STAFFORD Ancestors in this area. I have been researching my Families since 1990 before the arrival of the Internet.
I have recently come back to researching my Staffords after hitting that Brick Wall, but now I have been able to knock a few brick away, which inspired me to join Tameside which is one of the family's roots.
OK I think I should tell you how much I have researched at present on my Stafford's and hope we have a link somewhere along the lines.
John Stafford 1802 John Stafford was born about 1802 at Mellor Derbyshire he married Hannah Stanfield about 1825 Cheshire. Hannah the daughter of James and Esther Stanfield was born about 1803 at Newton Cheshire. The marriage produced at least nine children born on the borders of Lancashire and Cheshire. On the 1841 census the family are living at Moorside in the parish of Houghton sub district of Denton Lancashire. John is working as a Yeast Dealer Hannah died about16th September 1853 at Denton Tameside Cheshire aged fifty years old. John died about 14th May 1864 at Hyde Tameside Cheshire aged sixty two years old.
The Children of John and Hannah William was their first child born at Stalybridge about 1824 then came a succession of seven more children all born at Haughton sub district of Denton, Ashton under Lyne, Lancashire. Elizabeth was born about 1826, Eliza born 1828, Josiah born 1830, Esther born 29th September 1834, baptised 19th April 1835, James 26th March 1837, Clarry 22nd October 1838. Uriah 11th September1842.
William Stafford 1826 William Stafford the son of John and Hannah Stafford was born 1824/25 at Stalybridge Lancashire. I found the first reference to this on the 1851 census Milltown, Glossop where he was lodging at the home of Hannah Sheppard a Widow woman. William is working in the cotton mills as an Operative Cotton Spinner and declares his age 26 and marital status bachelor. The other inhabitants are Hannah’s children; Sarah and William, Sarah is a spinster of 24 years and gives her occupation as a Power Loom Weaver, birthplace Glossop. William Sheppard is a 23 year old bachelor occupation Operative Cotton Spinner, birthplace Glossop.
Later that same year William married Sarah Sheppard at St Luke’s the parish Church of Whitfield, Glossop. Their Marriage took place 15th September 1851. The Certificate reads William Stafford Bachelor aged 25 occupation Spinner residence Whitfield, Father’s name John Stafford, occupation Carder. Sarah Sheppard Spinster aged 24 occupation Spinner residence Whitfield, her father’s name as not been entered. Both have entered an X besides their names indicating they were both illiterate.
William Stafford died 14th September 1853 aged 29 years of Consumption “not certified” at Mill Town. Sarah was the informant and present at his death, his occupation is given as a “self acting minder” which means he was in charge of the automatic spinning mule in the cotton mill.
kenneth_littlewood@yahoo.co.uk
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