BRADLEY in Dukinfield-2

[bella]

I guess I should have posted this first...I have a question to those of you lucky enough to have seen original records in either Lancashire or Cheshire civil offices or church records. Have you ever seen notations on civil or church records that indicated a person/family left Lancashire and emigrated to the USA? Gosh, I'd like to be lucky enough to find a notation like that for the folks I'm searching.

A few years back when I was actively working with Sicilian civil records on LDS microfilms, I would occasionally find a notation on the documents that noted that the person/family had left the village and went to the USA. Also, that if they had to send home for proof of ??birth/baptism?? for a marriage you could sometimes be lucky that the clerk had noted that on the original document too. Also a friend in County Durham England who did reciprocal genea-work for me there, saw similar notations.

This is my brick wall: I'm searching for 2 BRADLEY men, brothers or cousins, who left Lancashire circa 1840 for Pennsylvania USA. They worked as coal miners and brick makers in Pennsylvania. One of the men, John Bradley stays in Pennsylvania till his death. The other, William Bradley, returns to the Lancashire/Cheshire area between 1860 and July 1870, when as a 54y widower, marries a widow, 54y Ellen Hardman daughter of Thomas Seddon, in St. James Church Ashton-under-Lyne.
In 1871 William & Ellen Bradley are found on RG10/3667 Norbury, Hazelgrove, St. Thomas, Cheshire(?). William notes his place of birth as Little Hulton Lancashire. His Pennsylvania application for citizenship notes "born 1813 in Lancashire". He was in Pennsylvania for the 1850 & 1860 US census.
William dies 11 Feb 1880, 64y, at 142 Tame Valley, Dukinfield, which at that time is Ashton Under Lyne, Cheshire. William was intestate in the UK, and in Pennsylvania. However, his brother(??) John Bradley travels to the UK and is counted as a visitor in the 1881 census. There was a notice in John's hometown Pennsylvania newspaper that he was traveling to England to secure a fortune left by a relative.
In 1881 the widow Ellen Seddon Hardman Bradley is found RG11/3466 Alfred St, Hyde, Werneth, St. George, Cheshire.

What are the chances of finding a notation saying that John & William were leaving for the US, and perhaps something on Williams records indicating he had returned after a 25-ish year absence? What are the odds of locating a newspaper article on either William and Ellen's marriage, or William's death? Looking forward to reading your replies.
Bella

[Woody]

Hi Bella

I should think the chances of a notation on records or a newspaper account are pretty slim, but I'll have a look anyway.

In the meantime, you might want to have a deeper look at this reference for a John Bradley and William Bradley who entered the USA through New York on 16th May, 1836. They both travelled from Liverpool on the ship 'Tremont'.

John gave his age as 21 years, and William is 19 years which would fit the age given in the death record you have for Willliam.

It's exactly the same reference for both people:

Microfilm Serial Number: M237
Microfilm Roll Number: 29
List Number: 318

I'm not sure how you would get at these microfilmed records but they should be available for research somewhere in the US, possibly through your local National Archives branch

Woody

[bella]

Woody,
thanks for the reply.
I have a home subscription to Ancestry.com USA edition (only) and after many hours searching for the arrival of either man, have come up with no good hits. So thank you for finding what I could not. That said, I'll be checking there first for any items they have for that arrival, and then proceeding to order that microfilm. Where did YOU access it, by the way? If my Natl Archives does not have it here in the US can the image be ordered from yours, or your source?

I believe John and William to be brothers. I also believe they married sisters or cousins: John to Mary Howard/Howarth and William to Alice Howard/Howarth.

In US census 1850, there is an Edward Howard, who has a 10y Edward Bradley living with him. I believe Edward Howard may be a brother to Mary and Alice. I have the US death cert for Edward Bradley and he names William and Alice Howard Bradley to be his parents, however, in the Will of John Bradley, Edward Bradley is called his "son". In that same Will of John Bradley, there is a daughter named Mary Ann Bradley. I followed her, and her death cert also names parents as William and Alice, not John, as her parents. This all leads me to believe that when William returned to the UK pre-1870, he left his children in the US and his brother John "adopted" the 2 kids, in deed, if not in fact.

Are you able to do a lookup for Edward, Mary, and Alice Howard/Howarth, pre-1850, perhaps post-1836?
Thank you, Bella

[bella]

To Woody,
I was able to get at the images for the ship "Tremont" from Liverpool to NYC arriving 16 May 1836 at Ancestry.com.
The manifest identifies these Bradley men on this voyage as being from Ireland: John, William, Michael, Joseph, and Roger Bradley. You're right in that their ages are correct. The names of the other 3 fellows do not appear around John & William as I follow them in the US.
On every civil document I have for my John and William, they always give their birthplace as England. William on the UK 1871 census calls out his birthplace as Little Hulton, Lancashire. His 1870 marriage cert to Ellen calls out his father's name as Thomas Bradley. I don't have any confirmation of this kind for John Bradley, unfortunately.
Thanks, Bella

[bella]

To Woody,
I was able to get at the images for the ship "Tremont" from Liverpool to NYC arriving 16 May 1836 at Ancestry.com.
The manifest identifies these Bradley men on this voyage as being from Ireland: John, William, Michael, Joseph, and Roger Bradley. You're right in that their ages are correct. The names of the other 3 fellows do not appear around John & William as I follow them in the US.
On every civil document I have for my John and William, they always give their birthplace as England. William on the UK 1871 census calls out his birthplace as Little Hulton, Lancashire. His 1870 marriage cert to Ellen calls out his father's name as Thomas Bradley. I don't have any confirmation of this kind for John Bradley, unfortunately.
Thanks, Bella

[Woody]

Hi Bella

That’s a real shame, although people do warn that when something seems too good to be true, it usually is !!

I had a stab at your further request but it’s virtually impossible to research BMD records in the UK accurately without having a fairly specific idea of ages and places of birth or residence, especially pre-1837. If you’re able to provide these more specific details for Edward, Mary and Alice Howard/Howarth, that would narrow down the options considerably.

I’m pretty sure that, following his visit here, John Bradley re-entered the USA through New York on 21st November 1881. He had travelled from Liverpool on board the ship ‘Gallia’.

To save space on the forum message board, I’ll send you a private message outlining the details both of that event and the remainder of my speculations about the Howarth/ Howard ancestors.

Cheers

Woody